- Mangus, again the reply Button is missing below your last comment about Carnegie and Rockefler, so I anser here:Yes, there have been great examples esspecially in the US of individuals who got extraordinary rich. The question which is raised often, at least in Europe, and what was also my question within my orgiginal post, how high is the average chance of the average man to do this ? And has this chance changed looking at international markets of today?Yes, there are the "facebooks", "Googles" etc. But is the the the rule or the very rare exeption ?
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- Tom,Not all can be the leaders look at Merkel - what sets her aside from all ladies why her and not all? The answer you seek but will not see is that all humans are not created equally - some are strong, some are weak, some ambitious and smart, some lazy and dumb, all however should have a EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO GO AS FAR AND HIGH AS THEY HAVE ABILITY.No one except God can make all equal and would that not create even bigger problems - who would be the farmers that work very long days to harvest before the rains, who would take the garbage, who would clean the hotel rooms, who would wash the dishes, who would clean the streets, who would dig the holes to repair utilities, who would run the sewer plants, who would do the hard labor jobs?Well this problem exists and has created major problems for each EU member as your own people refused these menial tasks you IMPORTED third world [unequal] to do your dirty work - these were mainly Islamic people and now France, England, Germany, and even little Holland have major issues and threats leading to riots in the streets. America has mainly South Americans and Mexicans as the labor supply. So- now the problem becomes is what do you do with all these uneducated, language challenged populations living in ghettos in what we think is abject poverty but they see as better than they had. Now they want equality of results in the new societies they want free stuff to make them more equal and to raise their standard of living.Not so simple a problem to solve now is it?
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- Mangus, I think we come to the point. This sentence from you is very important and I would underline it several times:"some are strong, some are weak, some ambitious and smart, some lazy and dumb, all however should have a EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO GO AS FAR AND HIGH AS THEY HAVE ABILITY"This EXACTLY what I am talking about !
EQUAL Opportunity ! But unfortunatly the two twins from my example, remember they are TWINS (they have exactly the same Genes, meaning the same abilities) do not have the equal opportunity because the live in different families. The opportunity of the richer twin are much better, he can affort to go to harvard-university, he can start with 1 Million...
Many people in Europe take your sentence very seriously, they ask for the government to make this happen, meaning take away the headstart from one twin and giving it to the other twin, so that they start at the same starting line without financial headstart for anyone.
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- No Tom.The government has ZERO business in choosing winner or losers, equalizing life or financial "opportunity"."Capitalism demands the best of every man – his rationality – and rewards him accordingly. It leaves every man free to choose the work he likes, to specialize in it, to trade his product for the products of others, and to go as far on the road of achievement as his ability and ambition will carry him." ARAll men are created equal - some will, some won't, who cares, who's next.Its not about anything other than the laws of nature. No government program can circumvent those laws, regardless of how hard they try to engineer it.It has failed EVERY SINGLE TIME in history.
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- with all respect, I do not think that this sentence:
"Its not about anything other than the laws of nature"is true or should be true in civilized countries. Think about, what is the "law of nature" ? Its simply the "survival of the fittest".
Would we accept when some Gangster-Band, stronger as you are, would rob your home like a pack of wolfes as a"natural law of nature" ?
Would we simply say, Ok the gangsters have been stronger and better, they deserve what they got, its the law of nature...
Of course not. We do not accepted this as" law of nature", today we call for the government to prevent this.
I think what is true here should also be true in the world of business, there should be rules and there should be meassures to prevent "packs of wolfes" to rob anyone they like just because they are economical much stronger than others.
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- You dont understand Natural Law.One of them is its nacho cheese. In other words, you have no natural right to take anything whatsoever from one man and give it to another without his consent.And if you attempt it, another natural law kicks in: the natural god given right to defend.Now, if you dont get that, then put your hand in my pocket without permission and see what you pull out friend.Its that simple.BTW - What happened to your phony broken english over 2 days anyway?LMAO.
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- Tom,Your position is supportive of the pack of wolfs taking citizens goods and monies under the threat of punishment. Humm now you have finally buried your idea of equality - you are one of the robbers at my door just taking my work product without my permission - majority rule would allow 50% plus 1 vote to take all of the property of the 49.9% - there is nothing that prevents this and that is why Democracies have always failed as the majority takes to much and the producers withdraw or cause a war to overthrow the government and form a dictatorship.No Sir your ideas are pure socialism heading to anarchy and a dictatorship like most third world nations have done many many times over the last 150 years. Million die and all lose their wealth and are forced to live in filth and poverty. See East Germany.
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- I have no intention to do any kind of "propaganda" nor would I have any benefit out of this, its not my ountry where where you live.I'm just curious why people seem to fight for something where at I can not see their own interest.So, let me ask you a bit provocative Question. I think US is a little bit underestimating the realeconomical power china already has.Would you still fight for free markets without regulation done by the government, when chinese companies would buy out most of american companies (which they already could do today, given the amount of dollars china has in its pockets) and would fire everyone who would not be willing to work for chinese wages ?Well that might not happen today, but looking at the trade balance deficit between US and China it is clear, that the day where the bill has to be payed will come.Would you still cheer for free markets at this day ?
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- Better study the Communist Chinese economy better Tom.It is a Paper Dragon. Hiding behind propaganda not different than the Soviet Communists hid behind.It is a false economy.And contrary to the propaganda, they cant just call in the debt. They can only stop buying new debt and cash out what they hold as it matures.Actually America can light a match that puts the Paper Dragon up in flames in an instant if desired. And they know it.
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- tom,You are now sounding more like Carl . . ?? China is not a problem - china has more problems than they can finance at home - they have been placing money in American bonds to have a bailout fund if the people rebel. They have a huge problem of mass migration from the rural areas of uneducated people demanding jobs and homes. China can not create jobs fast enough as they become a higher than average wage scales than other Asian and Indian communities.News flash - china lost more manufacturing jobs over the last decade than the the EU of America. America is still the number one manufacturing economy on earth. So what some see is what they read from uninformed sources. Chinese Corporations have closed factories in China and moved them to Viet Nam. Humm what now? No more boogie man China like Europe are doomed with LEGACY COSTS AND SHRINKING FREEDOM FROM TAXES AND GOVERNMENT CONFISCATIONS OF WEALTH AND PROPERTY.IF AMERICANS STOP BUYING CHINESE PRODUCT FOR 6 MONTHS OR A SINGLE YEAR CHINA WILL FAIL.
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- Money does not yield success - look at the Lottery winners in the USA - most are bankrupt in less than 10 years so money is not the equalizer - not all twins have equal abilities so are intellectually gifted while the other is not - one goes to music and the other to business.ALL HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES ALL ARE LIMITED ONLY BY THEMSELVES AND THEIR INDIVIDUAL DESIRE TO SUCCEED.I knew a Italian immigrant that could barely speak English, he started doing yard work in a very expensive Southern California neighborhood - he worked so hard and fast delivering top level work products. Soon he was doing every house in the entire neighborhood and soon he purchased one of the homes with cash. He was not that bright or educated but he was driven by a need to succeed and was willing to work 20 hours per day if that is what it took.Money did not make him a winner - hard work and dedication did, no government helped him. You keep going back to the idea that inherited wealth give one individual an advantage over the other. Read this story about the inventor of duckduckgo.com. He did one business and sold it for $ 10 million but then started another. Why did he not just do the European thing and take a retirement on the beach?
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- Let us just look at the real world through real lenses not those colored by jealousy and envy. Let the rich just keep what they have and stop them from investing any more in industries or businesses. Now you have this thing you believe is the driver of the economy called demand.Now we are faced with a situation of a growing demand and shrinking supply - what happens to the standard of living as the cost shoot up due to lack of goods. See if you reverse the premise of trickle down does not work then how can trickle up increase prices?Surely you can see the investment of the rich drive the availability of goods in the market. Without venture capital no business could grow - when the first personal computer was invented it was not because there was DEMAND - products create demand by creating a thought in the public that the product is useful.Did demand create the electric light bulb, the electric motor to replace steam, the computer to replace workers, no sir, I would submit that invention creates the demand if the item is useful to the society at large. Poor people do not create rich people - rich people create the middle class by providing employment opportunities.
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