- The people are the only legitimate fountain of power, and it is from them that the constitutional charter, under which the several branches of government hold their power, is derived.
James Madison
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- . . There is no danger I apprehend so much as the consolidation of our government by the noiseless, and therefore unalarming, instrumentality of the Supreme Court.
Thomas Jefferson
(letter to Wm. Johnson, 1823)That the Jurisdiction of the Supreme Court of the United States, or of any other Court to be instituted by the Congress, is not in any case to be encreased enlarged or extended by any Fiction Collusion or mere suggestion; . . .
New York Ratifying Convention, 1788
(Part of proposed amendments to the Constitution)
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- 'The last Constitutional Covention was in May, 29, 1790 - Rhode Island ratifies.*
Wow! That was 221 years ago! I found a very interesting article on this topic. I posted it on a separate forum.
I didn't start the thread because I agree with the subject matter. Go to:
The Dangers Of A Constitutional Convention.
http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/forum/topics/dangers-of-a-constitu...
ref:
* http://www.usconstitution.net/consttime2.html
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Report of Proceedings on September 15, 1787 in Farrand’s (1911), at...
In James Madison's Federalist No. 43 he writes "It, moreover, equally enables the general and the State governments to originate the amendment of errors, as they may be pointed out by the experience on one side, or on the other":Federalist No. 43
In Federalist No. 85, Alexandar Hamilton writes "We may safely rely on the disposition of the State legislatures to erect barriers against the encroachments of the national authority":Federalist No. 85
In a letter from George Washington to John Armstrong, the future first president writes "It should be remembered that a constitutional door is open for such amendments as shall be thought necessary by nine States":Washington's Letter to Armstrong
In James Madison's Report On The Virginia Resolutions, House of Delegates (pg 501-02), he writes "...or two thirds of themselves (states), if such had been their opinion, might, by an application to Congress, have obtained a convention for the same object":Report On The Virginia Resolutions, House of Delegates
James Madison's letter on Nullification also made reference to the Article V amendment process when he writes "the final resort within the purview of the Constitution, lies in an amendment of the Constitution, according to a process applicable by the states":Madison's Letter on Nullification
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- He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers.
Charles Peguy
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- Let me expand the points in play -"but the truth of the matter is this, our own government has become a monstrosity that we have lost control of, people are beginning to ask questions and really think about the events of the last 100 years since the socialist/progressive assault on the Constitution and the country." The Federal government including all three branches are in a perpetual state of usurpation which means the Constituion is null, void and as if it does not exist or limit their powers."This being the true state of affairs those that fear a Article V convention like Phyllis [conservative, John Burch society [conservative] and many liberal Progressive groups. they say it could open the Constitution to radical change and even making a new one - a run away Con Con in their confused world. IMO we have lost the Constitution and the Republic if we can not hold a Article V State convention; so without this method to end usurpation it is game over.From another post -"Alexander Hamilton closed the Federalist papers with the argument that the states should not convene a second constitutional convention, but should instead use their amendment power under Article V to correct any perceived overconcentration of power in the federal government."Excllent post. I wish I had used that in some of my posts intending to prove an Article V Convention is limited by its own terms and cannot "run away."
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- Goldwater Institute Daily
February 3, 2011
States have same power as Congress to propose amendments to the Constitution
by Nick Dranias
Arizona and five other states are considering use of their power under Article V of the U.S. Constitution to initiate an amendments convention. With the federal debt exceeding $14 trillion, I believe nothing short of state-initiated constitutional reform will stop the impending fiscal train wreck.
Critics of an Article V amendments convention claim the states could unleash a runaway “constitutional convention” by exercising their Article V powers. But the states do not have authority under Article V to call a “constitutional convention.” Indeed, the words “constitutional convention” appear nowhere in the Constitution.
The power of the states to call an amendments convention is no greater than the power of Congress to propose amendments. Both amendment powers operate within the existing limitations of the Constitution. Any proposed constitutional amendment, whether arising from Congress or from an amendments convention, must still be ratified by 38 states.
Opposition to states using their Article V power boils down to a belief that Congress is more trustworthy than the states when it comes to proposing constitutional amendments. I disagree. Congress is driving our nation toward a financial cliff. The states must take the wheel.
Nick Dranias holds the Clarence J. and Katherine P. Duncan Chair for Constitutional Government and is director of the Joseph and Dorothy Donnelly Moller Center for Constitutional Government at the Goldwater Institute.
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- Goldwater Institute Daily
November 4, 2010
Debunking myth of the ‘runaway’ convention
by Nick Dranias
Article V of the U.S. Constitution gives a supermajority of state legislatures the power to call a convention to restrain an overreaching federal government through targeted constitutional amendments. There is no reason to worry about a “runaway” convention because three-fourths of the states—38 states—would have to ratify whatever amendment might be proposed. Moreover, nothing in the nation’s history justifies fear of a “runaway” convention.
It is a myth that the U.S. Constitution was born of a “runaway” convention. The truth is the Convention of 1787 had an incredibly broad mandate from Congress—to establish “in these states a firm national government . . . [and] render the federal Constitution adequate to the exigencies of Government and the preservation of the Union.” In proposing the Constitution to amend the Articles of Confederation, the 1787 convention stayed well within the congressional call, as well as within the commissions of most delegates.
Although the Articles required unanimous ratification for alterations to it, and the Constitution only required ratification by nine states, the Constitution was only binding on those states that ratified it. While not every state in the Confederation initially ratified the Constitution, all of them ultimately did. In the end, the Constitution displaced the Articles of Confederation on the very terms prescribed by the Articles.
Today, the Goldwater Institute will release a new study that shows the states and Congress understood for decades after ratification that Article V provided an orderly way to make additional changes to the Constitution that would enhance its basic protection of freedom. If states choose to exercise their ultimate authority over the federal government through the Article V amendment process, history shows a “runway” convention just won’t happen.
Nick Dranias holds the Clarence J. and Katherine P. Duncan Chair for Constitutional Government and is director of the Joseph and Dorothy Donnelly Moller Center for Constitutional Government at the Goldwater Institute.
Learn More:
Goldwater Institute: Amending the Constitution by Convention: A Complete View of the Founders’ Plan
Yale Law School: Report of Proceedings in Congress, February 21, 1787
Restoringfreedom.org: A powerful idea whose time has come
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- "Has the States ever held a convention to propose amendments?"
We came close once. In the early 20th Century, there was a strong grass roots move to call a convention, promoted by the Progressives, to provide for the direct election of U.S. Senators.
Congress, fearing a convention and what it might do, sent out an proposed amendment (the 17th) to preempt calling a convention. The amendment, providing for the direct election of Senators was ratified in 1913.
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- I might be wrong but it is my belief that if 3/4 of the State Legislatures ratify a single or numerous amendments they become a part of the Constitution without Congressional action or review.
Here is a letter from Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821.
[As to danger of the Supreme Court's misinterpreting the Constitution so as to concentrate power in Washington] To this I am opposed; because when all government . . . shall be drawn to Washington . . . will become venal and oppressive . . . [As Great Britain's Government] . . . If States look with apathy on this silent descent of their government into the gulf which swallow all, we have only to weep over the human character formed uncontrollable but by rod of iron, and the blasphemers of man, as incapable of self-government, become his true historians.
They were men of incredible vision and able to predict the ills that would become the truths of our days.
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- Founder on Article V need?In Jefferson's first Inaugural address as President, He stated the State governments a "the surest bulwarks against anti-republican tendencies" - that is, tendencies which conflict with the American form of Government: A Republic. He stated in a letter to Destutt de Tracy (1811): "But the true barriers [bulwarks] of our liberty With regard to the people's freedom in this country are our State Governments . . . " With regard to the people's freedom from Government - over - Man controls by the Federal government, in keeping with the Constitution's limits on that government's powers, Jefferson stated in his Annual Message to Congress in 1801: "Agriculture, manufactures, commerce, and navigation, the four pillars of our prosperity, are the most of thriving when left most free to individual enterprise." I the above-mentioned 1811 letter, Jefferson also discussed the prospective use of the Militia of the States - all acting together - to resist the forces of any Federal usurpers acting in violation of the Constitution to oppress or dominate the people or government of any State.
It is most interesting again a Founder foresaw our problems of today and the usurpation of the Progressives/Socialists Federal government. They were very concerned about providing a solution to protect the Rule - by - Law instead of the Rule - by - Man we now find ourselves living under. Usurped powers are to be found in all three branches of the government - Legislative - Judicial - Executive and we the people must take the proper steps to remedy the situation.
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