his Discussion
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- Old post but on point -The top three starters on the list,the 14th - Kind of delicate and supported by illegals and those who are counting on those votes.The 17th - A oxymoron that duped the populace once before and continues to do so today.The 16th - Kind of obvious, but why are conservatives so afraid of it? Is it that they think they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Or is it fear that the mess is so big the fear of the potential turmoil is unbearable?Lets keep this going folks, some states are already discussing Article V and many of those that haven't yet are in the process of Nullification which will eventually lead to Article V. This issue may be sensitive, but, my daddy alway's told me "god hates a coward".
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- "It's my understanding, of 14A sec.5, that Congress has the authority to alter said amendment by a simple majority vote"Nathan:May I respectfully suggest you re-read the language:"Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."The authority granted to Congress is to enforce the amendment, not to change it. The 200 lawyers serving in Congress (and God knows how many in your state legislature) won't read the language as you do.
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- I agree with Glenn, section 5 means that congress has the power to make appropriate legislation to enforce the 14th A, not to change it.One aspect that may be used to gain support may be section 2 of the 14th A, I am curious to see if the womens rights folks would jump on board because the language of section 2 specifies only "male inhabitants" and "male citizens"
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- Our first shot at nullification here in Arizona failed (as you may know). We got close but the career politicos and thier controlled Senators got cold feet right at the end. Now, we got this close in the legislative process alone (no concerted public movement or participation).2012 elections we are concentrating on candidates that will vote for the strongest State rights. A campaign issue at the state level.Those that focus entirely on the national reindeer games in 2012 do so at their own peril.
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- I agree overall and with your last remark in particular I second, third, fourth and fifth it.
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- Atlas here is the Article V State convention in detail - read it watch the videos and we can discuss the way forward - nullifications in process are the first step -
Article V
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As the national debt continues to grow, states are looking for ways to rein in Washington's out of control spending. Article V of the U.S. Constitution gives states the power to call an amendments convention. If at least 34 states call for a convention, they could consider the National Debt Relief Amendment. The NDRA contains 18 simple, yet extremely powerful words — "An increase in the federal debt requires approval from a majority of the legislatures of the separate States.” Three-fourths of the states, 38 of them, would have to vote to approve the NDRA or any amendment considered at an amendments convention.Through historical texts and records the Goldwater Institute's constitutional scholars have determined that fears of an Article V amendments convention "running away" are unfounded. The U.S. Constitution would not be rewritten by delegates to such a convention. The Goldwater Institute has studied and written extensively about Article V and the National Debt Relief Amendment. We've also cited original sources from the Founders that show their approval of and advocacy for an amendments convention, as well as articles from other sources that have also researched Article V. A complete list follows.Goldwater Institute Sources:Senior Fellow Robert G. Natelson looks at the history of Article V and how states can use it to call an amendments convention in this series:Amending the Constitution by Convention: A Complete View of the Fou...
Learning from Experience: How the States Used Article V Application...
Amending the Constitution by Convention: Practical Guidance for Cit...
You've heard that an amendments convention can lead to drastic changes to the Constitution. Here the Goldwater Institute sets the record straight:10 Facts to Rebut the Mythology of a Runaway Convention
Goldwater Institute constitutional attorney Nick Dranias gave a presentation on Article V at a Goldwater Institute event on February 25, 2011. Watch Parts 1 and 2 below:Goldwater Institute Constitutional Attorney Nick Dranias wrote a series of Daily Emails which explore the use of Article V, the National Debt Relief Amendment, how states can call an amendments convention, and why they should:No matter who controls Congress, the federal government has been incapable of putting its fiscal house in order:States can seek constitutional amendment to end federal debt binge
When it comes to the balance of power between the federal and state governments, the feds have a stronghold. Though no single avenue exists that would return power to the states, one potent remedy must not be ignored:States must not ignore powerful avenue for bringing back federalism
The Founding Fathers put a fail-safe mechanism in the Constitution that gives states the power to rein in an out-of-control federal government--Article V. It is high time for the states to use it:Founders prepared path to restrain runaway federal government
If the states choose to exercise their authority over the federal government through the Article V amendment process, history shows a “runway” convention just won’t happen:Debunking myth of the ‘runaway’ convention
Thomas Jefferson worried that one thing missing from the newly minted Constitution was some kind of limit on federal debt. Fortunately, President Jefferson’s wish can be a reality through the use of Article V:Need national debt relief?
Any effort to call for an amendments convention under Article V of the U.S. Constitution must “make the sale” to 34 state legislatures and “close the deal” with 38 states to ratify any amendment. Resolutions to apply for a convention must consider the political appeal of potential suggestions. The National Debt Relief Amendment sets the standard for a highly marketable idea:Amendment to limit national debt will appeal to states
As America's debt approaches $14 trillion, it may seem like there is nothing that can be done to stop and reverse the mounting crisis. But 18 words could change all that:The National Debt Relief Amendment Gains Momentum
Nick Dranias has just one New Year's resolution this year. He wants to see an amendments convention that would reign in the federal government's out-of-control spending:My New Year’s Resolution: A Dynamic Balance of Power
Congress is driving our nation toward a financial cliff and the states must take the wheel. The best way is for states to use their power to call an amendments convention and consider the National Debt Relief Amendment to help end out-of-control spending:States have same power as Congress to propose amendments to the Con...
The National Debt Relief Amendment would empower the states to control federal spending. So why are some of the most conservative lawmakers in the Arizona legislature refusing to allow a full vote on the NDRA? It's because they have been given bad information:Does the Arizona Legislature Really Believe in State Sovereignty?
Nick Dranias was part of a news conference in which it was announced that the Arizona legislature would be joining other states in considering calling for an Article V amendments convention.RestoringFreedom Sources:RestoringFreedom.org is a Texas-based non-profit formed in 2009 that wrote the language for the National Debt Relief Amendment.About Restoring Freedom.org and the National Debt Relief Amendment:RestoringFreedom.org: The National Debt Relief Amendment
Read the model legislation state legislatures can adopt to call for an amendments convention:RestoringFreedom.org: Model legislation
Goldwater Institute experts discuss their thoughts on RestoringFreedom's National Debt Relief Amendment:Still have questions about the National Debt Relief Amendment? RestoringFreedom answers them in their FAQ's section:RestoringFreedom.org: Frequently Asked Questions about the National...
Original Sources:Perhaps the most convincing evidence that an Article V amendments convention can be a safe and effective way to control the national debt is by looking at original sources written by the Founders. Their intent for Article V is clear.The plain language of Article V of the U.S. Constitution on the states' right to call an amendments convention is very distinct:U.S. Constititution Article V
Proof that an Article V convention is not a general constitutional convention (Founders’ repeated rejection of open convention language for Article V during 1787 Constitutional Convention):Report of Proceedings on September 15, 1787 in Elliot’s Debates (19...
and:Report of Proceedings on September 15, 1787 in Farrand’s (1911), at...
In James Madison's Federalist No. 43 he writes "It, moreover, equally enables the general and the State governments to originate the amendment of errors, as they may be pointed out by the experience on one side, or on the other":Federalist No. 43
In Federalist No. 85, Alexandar Hamilton writes "We may safely rely on the disposition of the State legislatures to erect barriers against the encroachments of the national authority":Federalist No. 85
In a letter from George Washington to John Armstrong, the future first president writes "It should be remembered that a constitutional door is open for such amendments as shall be thought necessary by nine States":Washington's Letter to Armstrong
In James Madison's Report On The Virginia Resolutions, House of Delegates (pg 501-02), he writes "...or two thirds of themselves (states), if such had been their opinion, might, by an application to Congress, have obtained a convention for the same object":Report On The Virginia Resolutions, House of Delegates
James Madison's letter on Nullification also made reference to the Article V amendment process when he writes "the final resort within the purview of the Constitution, lies in an amendment of the Constitution, according to a process applicable by the states":Madison's Letter on Nullification
Other Sources:Along with the Goldwater Institute, RestoringFreedom, and the Founding Fathers themselves, other organizations have weighed in on the Article V amendments convention process.The idea of an Article V amendments convention is nothing new. In 1988 the Heritage Foundation published a report showing numerous safeguards are in place that would keep such a convention from "running away." In fact, Heritage calls a state-called amendments convention safer than Congress proposing amendments:Heritage Foundation: Amending the Constitution by the Convention Me...
In 1979, the U.S. Justice Department wrote a legal opinion that Article V of the Constitution authorizes a limited subject amendments convention:U.S. Justice Department: Legal opinion that Article V authorizes a ...
Is it really that important that we get federal spending under control? Just one look at the U.S. Debt Clock and the answer is an obvious 'yes':U.S.DebtClock.org: National debt
Media Sources:Politico:Tea party split on constitutional convention
Associated Press:ND House to Congress: Ask states permission to raise federal debt
World Net Daily:Solution to federal debt binge: Article V
For further information about an Article V amendments convention, please contact Nick Dranias atndranias@goldwaterinstitute.org.
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- Share the Goldwater piece with your friends and families. Post it wide and often s more understand it more will support it. That being said you will find extreme conservatives like Phyllis Schfly and the John Birch society are in fear and attack the idea but offer no solution - they fear a run away convention.
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- 1. Great backup info and research for the idea of the Convention. Thanks2. You make my point clearly. The man on the street will NOT read all that until there is a common sense, concise arument in FRONT of all that.Proponents being able to provide the back-up details is absolutely required. But it is rendered meaningless until the People have a compelling reason to study it.I dont presume to know if you have a backround in sales, marketing or product development. I do. The 1000 leg dog wont hunt. Lets work in concert. You guys can give the details. I will attempt to boil it down for human consumption :)My questions are not objections, they are the ones the common man would ask and they must be answered in order to achieve success.
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- I agree 100% - it must be put in a statement of simple benefits to the individual - how will it help me and my family live better and at a lower tax cost? Tell me what you need in tech back up and I will try to find it - with the help of a few fellow researchers [scholars]- OK you sold me let the games begin?
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- Many of us have spent a lifetime [long long time IMC] and it is just second nature to us - we can not see the complexities as we understand the document from the top down and from the bottom up. Yes there are many arguments but in my opinion I agree with Robert G. Natelson and his bookTHE ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION What it Said and What it Meant. 2010 published by the tenth amendment center.THE WORDS MEAN WHAT THEY SAY - AND MEANING ARE THOSE OF THE TIME OF WRITING. Simple but all fight the concept - what about this or that - the answer in my opinion is so what it says this - if you want to change it then process an amendment as the Founders/Framers/Ratifies intended.
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- I just now posted along the same lines. Now regarding two of your comments:“I will attempt to boil it down for human consumption” and “My questions are… the ones the common man would ask and they must be answered in order to achieve success.”If there is anything I can do to help with this effort sign me up. Let me say plainly, if you make good on these objectives than I’ll follow you into the pit of h*ll itself.
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- Please look at this rassmussen poll and read the text below it:The poll hammers home that the only solution is to Restore the Constitutional Republic One State at a time. The People do not want to be governed, they want to govern themselves. The only way to do that is to wrest control from the usurping, inept Federal government through State Soveriegnty reassertion. 10thAWashington, DC is the problem, not the solution - Too Broke to Fix.Time to move the National Reindeer games to the backburner and work to strenghten your Soveriegn State wherever you live.38 states moving in the same direction "trumps" the Federal Government. This is where the action is that provides a solution to a majority of our problems.The umbrella lie to all of the underlying ones is that the Central Government is too big to fail and therefore has all the power.The current success' of the States need to be front & center - people are drawn to good ideas with a success track record. I am inclined to attempt to not let the national reindeer games entirely suck all the air out of the room. IMO the gains made in 2010 in State legislatures have reaped some reults, that make the national positions look inept.The local TP groups can do this best affecting those local positions. I believe the TPM in general is missing the boat if it allows itself to be sucked into the vortex of national politics entirely. If TP's will work towards legislatures strong on 10thA rights, the national guys will end up being nuetered to a large degree. Even an element of surpise when they attempt usurptation and get their asses handed to them by the States.
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