- Yes, thats true.
Of course Taxpayers pay and there is a discussion in germany why someone with low wages should pay someone elses education with the result that this person has a higher salary afterwards.But the majority of people see the benefit for the whole society, we do not have much ressources in germany, the only ressource we have is our education, so we need to maintain this very important ressource.Education is seen as a national task, very similar to defence or building roads and bridges.
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- Going back to Germany's tuition...
German universities
Mediocre, but at least they're free
One by one, German states are scrapping university tuition fees
BRITISH protesters who attacked Prince Charles's car last December failed to stop a rise in university fees. Perhaps they should have taken off their clothes instead, as a group of art students in Hamburg did earlier this year. The city-state's newly elected government, formed by the Social Democratic Party (SPD), will abolish tuition fees in 2012. Hamburg is one of several German states in which new, usually left-leaning governments are bringing back free university education. Of the seven states that introduced tuition fees after the constitutional court allowed them in 2005, just two—Lower Saxony and Bavaria—plan to continue. A half-hearted experiment is fizzling out.
This is an odd way for Germany to push its universities into the top tier. No German institution is among the leaders in global rankings, and money is part of the problem. The United States spends nearly twice as much per student as Germany does. Two-thirds of American universities' revenues come from [private] sources, compared with just 15% in Germany." (*)"private" sources... hmmm! That settles it. Socialism loses!
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- Yes, US Universities have more money avaialable and provide a much better service to every student. I know a lot of people who have studied in US.Studieng in Germany means more more self-study, less private time with the teachers and more improvisation, you do not get this 100% Service as you get in US.On the other side everyone can afford in Germany regardless where he comes from or and indepentently if you have rich or poor parents.I could imagine that some really great talents in US never saw a Top-university just because they could not affort the cost.
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- Tom,then how do you select who qualifies to become a Doctor MD, a scientist, a engineer, a Poet, a architect? What are the limits of each . . ? Can all go to Medical school or Dental school?Free always mean limited access in my experience. Only those with X test scores qualify.
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- Well, at least the "qualification" is not the pocket of the parents...It depends on the specific demand every year. If there is more demand then supply there is a mixture between individual testing and the grade in the final school exam called "Abitur" in Germany.So if you have been bad at school you will probably never become a doctor, because demand is high here but you might be able to study Philosophy, because there are always ennogh places left...
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- Tom D said:"Well, at least the "qualification" is not the pocket of the parents...It depends on the specific demand every year. If there is more demand then supply there is a mixture between individual testing and the grade in the final school exam called "Abitur" in Germany.So if you have been bad at school you will probably never become a doctor, because demand is high here but you might be able to study Philosophy, because there are always ennogh places left..."Uh...CTom...I noticed how fluent, and flowing, your writing has suddenly gotten -- as opposed to the misspelled words and Germanic tones. What a quick learner! qB-D
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- So, the State decides what you shall study and selects your future profession - Humm sounds like the USSR in the high times are you sure that the west took on the east or did the east conquer the west?Here our students determine what subjects they study we call it freedom of choice but then that is an entirely different subject - what is freedom?
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- I do not know much about US Walfare Programs but I can imagine that they, as also in Europe, will be missused by some people who take public walfare without a real need.The questions when you call a person "poor" is also in Germany heavily disputed but of course there are some clear indications:
When someone cannot affort to rent a home, when he connot affort to buy ennough food, when he cannot afford needed medical supply and in general when he cannot participate in normal social life , we call such persons "poor".Of course you have to look at this bevore getting walfare, because afterwards this situation should have changed, at least a bit.My point is, that in all western countries the number of these kind of people have grown within the last decates.Don't you think this is also true for USA ? I have heart e.g. that the number of homeless people in US is rising, or is this a false information ?Best RegardsTom
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- TomIf you're interested in the statistic that most affects the growth of needy and entitlements, I'll suggest you look into the rapid percentage growth of population living in urban areas the past few decades.
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- Tom,that is a false premise that the number of homeless is growing for the vast majority would only be in that situation for a few weeks unless you include the storm ravaged. Our welfare programs are huge and the food stamp [now a debit card] is given to University kids that come from wealthy families. we have opened the public pocketbook to buy votes not make the poor better off.The number of poor is misrepresented as the number is just adjusted until the desired result is achieved. Government takes from one group to bribe the voters of other groups - it is quid pro quo - just think we have Government employee UNIONS which negotiate for raises and more benefits with the same people they give money and labor to elect. CONFLICTS OF DEMOCRACY.Most developed countries have imported the so called POOR to provide menial job labor that the citizens will not perform. If all used a GUEST WORKER PROGRAM where these people can not bring their families and children. They need to return home every two years for 6 months before they can return.
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- I come from a country wich had both systems, we had a socialistic system in the east and we hat a capitalistic system in the west.And yes you are true, the socialistic system in east-germany failed completly.But I think the capitalitic system in west-germany, even it has a lot of social walfare programs (e.g. like a healthcare for everyone, labor insurance for everyone, retirement pay for every worker etc.) , did not that bad.After World War II the standard of living growth siginificantly and I do not know of a single german city where you have areas of real poverty and crime.Yes, some areas in east germany, esspecially on the country side still lack development but these are still the results of bad socialistic economy.
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- Tom, I don’t dispute that this is a great definition for poor other than the “normal social life” part, but the words of one of our founders , Thomas Jefferson should tell you how I feel about the subject when he said."The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty"What he was saying with that statement is that handing them what they need only creates an expectation of that to continue. I am on board with training programs to help the poor find jobs and all, but you have to consider that many of America’s poor put in more effort at staying unemployed and depended than it would take to get a job and support themselves. We also have very serious substance abuse problems that lead to people being poor that are ramped in our nation. The problem is that our progressive government has decided that it was wise to call these substance abuse problems a disability or disease. The net result is that our government will provide them food, clothing, housing and money. This is not help to these people, it’s enabling their behavior. I guess I am more of the school that if you give a man a fish, he will eat for today, if you teach him how to fish, he can feed himself for a lifetime.
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